Interview with an Ex-Vampire –
A True Story
Webmaster’s Note: The correct spelling of ‘magic’ is ‘magick”. However, for some this article, the word ‘magic‘ is used.
S: What is the significance of an inverted pentagram?
B: Well, that is a five pointed star where two points are up and one point is down.
And for the last several hundred years it’s kind of a universally recognized symbol of black magick and Satanism.
It’s on the cover of the Satanic Bible.
It’s used by almost all Satanic groups and it basically symbolizes the drawing-down of the kingdom of Satan’s manifestation on the earth.
S: Does an inverted pentagram have any other significance?
B: Well, in terms of the polarities of male and female, the inverted pentagram emphasizes the male.
The lower point symbolizes the dangling male organ.
On the other hand, when you have an upright pentagram, that symbolizes the goddess, the female, because you have the opening there.
S: How do you know that?
B: Well, it’s something that’s taught to virtually everybody who’s in Witchcraft or the occult.
S: Oh, Okay.
B: Yes, it’s pretty common knowledge.
S: Thank you.
Would you please tell the story about the time you spent with a very dangerous man, where you said that the paintings moved on the walls.
B: Well, at one point we heard about this fellow – I can’t remember how – oh, I know, it was in a book that we read – and he was involved with the O.T.O. which is a very high, level Crowleyian, black magic type of organization.
And he was down in Chicago.
We were in Milwaukee, so we were very close.
So we contacted him and he invited us to come down for a seminar.
And we attended the seminar.
And we had never heard anything as advanced as what this guy was teaching.
And so I thought that I would like to study with this guy.
And he also offered to make me – at the time I was an Old Roman Catholic Priest – and he offered to consecrate me an Old Roman Catholic Bishop.
And so he said that he wanted me to come down for a few weekends once or twice a month or so, so I could study with him.
So we began, and I will never forget that first night.
It was a Saturday night.
His whole apartment … he had this big apartment over Lake Michigan, 35 or 40 stories up, and he had all these weird looking plants up against the window.
None of them looked like anything I had ever seen before.
They all looked like they were from Mars or something.
And he had all these strange paintings on the wall, that looked primitive Aboriginal art done by someone with a dirty mind.
Strange swirls and everything. I asked him about them and he said they were his Transyuggothian icons.
Like in the orthodox church you have these icons that are believed to be windows to Heaven.
Well, he said these paintings were windows into other dimensions.
So, anyhow, he had me, after doing some rituals and drinking several glasses of Wild Turkey Whiskey which he said was necessary to raise the energy levels …
B: We both went … he was really into whiskey and stuff … and he also was the fellow who taught me about Voodoo and initiated me into Voodoo.
He had me sleep on a futon on the living room, kind of about 5 or 6 feet from these weird plants on this window.
And he of course went and slept in his bedroom.
And, as I lay there, trying to get to sleep, I kept hearing these strange rustling sounds in the room.
He had no pets.
I would turn on the light and the paintings would have moved.
B: Or the plants would have moved.
They had all these weird images, like the Adams Family TV show, they had these plants that eat people and everything.
S: Did the pots move? Or just the plants?
B: The plants would move around.
He told me earlier, is that part of the reasons the plants looked so good, he always ejaculated into the plant water first, so he was watering them with his own semen.
B: So, anyhow, this guy was … and of course, he had a Rosary in his pocket, he was always saying the Rosary.
He had me say it.
He was an ordained Deacon in the Episcopal Church.
B: In addition to being an Old Catholic Archbishop.
So anyway, I was just terrified.
It was one of the scariest nights of my life.
Because every time I turned on the light, the painting would be here and then it would be there, and one painting that was there would then be here.
And they all almost glowed in the dark.
S: Were they painted on the wall or hung on the wall?
B: They were like canvases hung on the wall.
But they were in these wild, primitive looking things.
And several of them had eyes and the eyes just seemed to glow.
I don’t think I slept more than a half hour.
In fact, the next time I went down there, my wife Sharon made me this one chasuble, that was like this white vestment, like you used to see, and still do see, Catholic priests wear, but with a huge red ankh on it, which is a good symbol supposedly in the occult.
I said, I’m taking that thing next time, I’m sleeping under it … I was just scared to death.
And every now and again I would take a friend down with me.
And this guy also happened to be a homo sexual.
And so he never wanted women, he only wanted men to come down.
And he was always sort of looking at us in kind of a predatory way.
Just a very, very strange individual.
But yet a very brilliant individual.
But probably the most evil person I had ever known.
So, can you make any comment about people who are super highly intelligent, because sometimes people think when someone is super highly intelligent that they are going to be … that they have to be good.
B: Well, that doesn’t necessarily follow.
Because … I mean, everyone is born with a fallen nature.
We have a tendency in us towards sin.
Just because you are brilliant doesn’t mean you are moral.
I mean, a lot of the people who were involved with the Nazi regime were very brilliant.
Look at this Michael Aquino, he is very brilliant.
I mean, you can’t get a Ph.D. in whatever, and be in the position he was in, and not be a really intelligent guy.
So, that’s a fallacy there.
There are some very, very holy brilliant people, but there are some also some very evil brilliant people.
And unfortunately, when evil blends – to quote Sherlock Holmes – when evil blends with intelligence – when the criminal mind comes in with great intelligence, then you have a truly appalling situation.
S: And can you make a similar comment about anyone who is really well-dressed, has a lot of money, acts like a really nice person?
B: Well, again, contrary to popular belief most of the really dangerous Satanists wear really expensive suits and beautiful haircuts and they are like the movers and shakers in any given city.
I mean, I can just speak of Chicago, but I know some of the most powerful names in the City of Chicago, at least when I was doing this stuff back in the 70s and early 80s, were Satanists.
And yet, you know, they looked very well-dressed and they were thought of as being pillars of the community.
So, you can’t … that’s why again, Yahushua said, don’t judge by appearances.
And he also said, beware of wolves that are in sheep’s clothing.
Because obviously a wolf in sheep’s clothing looks sweet and nice – they look like a sheep.
What is the significance of Aleister Crowley?
B: Well, I mentioned him on and off.
He is probably one of the most, if not the most, influential ceremonial magician of the 20th Century.
He was born in 1875 and he died, I think, in 1947.
And basically he was a genius – another example of an evil genius.
He went to Oxford and he was raised by a very, oddly enough…
Aleister Crowley is like the nightmare version of the Preacher’s kid.
Because he was raised by a very strict Plymouth Brethren family.
In fact, his mother I think was too strict, and every time he would misbehave she would beat him and she started to say, “When you grow up, you are going to be the Great Beast.”
Now, you know, what kind of a mother would say that to a kid?
S: So by the time he was 18 when he went to Oxford, he baptized a toad in the name of Jesus Christ and crucified it upside down.
And he went on, and he was like a poet, a mountaineer, a chess master and he also ended up joining the Order of the Golden Dawn, which was the central occult society of the late 19th and early 20th century.
And he went from there … he married this poor, unfortunate woman, Rose Kelly … I mean, he had 3 or 4 wives, and all of them ended up as alcoholics or suicides.
But he took her on their honeymoon to Egypt, and they went and spent their honeymoon night in the King’s Chamber of the Great Pyramid, where he reportedly saw a blue light circulating around the room.
And later on Crowley took her to the Cairo Museum just to see some of the exhibits.
And for some strange reason she was drawn to this one exhibit down at the end of the hall.
And it was a steele.
A steele in Egyptian law is like a big thing that has writing on it, looks almost like the cliché image of the tablets that Yahweh wrote the 10 Commandments on for Moses.
And he came down to it, and it happened to be Exhibit No. 666.
And so he felt that this was a really important … whatever you want to call it … magical coincidence.
And so he looked at what this was, and it was the steele of Ankh-af-na-Khonsu, who was a priest in some ancient dynasty.
And Crowley came to understand at that moment that he was a reincarnation of Ankh-af-na-Khonsu.
And so he went home that night and, I think over the next few nights – this was in 1904 – his wife started going into trance, and she started giving him this book, which ended up being what was called “Liber Al Vel Legis”, “The Book of the Law”.
And he thought that he was the new avatar of the new aeon, just like Christ was the beginning of the Christian age, he was the beginning of the Crowleyian Age, the New Age.
And he started a new religion which he called Crowleyanity … this guy had no problem with self esteem.
In fact he used to say that the greatest experience any woman could ever have at the spiritual level was to have sex with him.
B: So he was a real character.
And he basically founded … he said the cardinal rule of his religion was, “Do what though wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will.”
And because of the emphasis on the word “will” another name for his religion was the religion of Thelema, which is the Greek word for ‘will’.
So people who follow Crowley are called Thelemites.
And essentially he cast this huge shadow over 20th Century magic.
Basically Wicca was based on a lot of his writings, and a lot of the magickal work that has been done since the 1950s in America, England and even in Europe.
Because he ended up for … this is a long story, but he ended up being made the head of the O.T.O. for the English speaking world – the Ordo Templi Orientis – which is an occult, Templar, Rosicrucian society that taught sex magic.
And so he had influence in that area as well.
Plus he was a very high level Mason.
He had so many Masonic degrees that he used to joke that, “An elephant would creak under the weight of all the medals and garlands and aprons that I have the right to wear, in terms of my Masonic achievements.”
S: And what did you think of him at the time?
B: Well, we thought that he was a very powerful and enlightened being, and we felt that he was to our century what Yahushua was to his century.
Because a lot of his stuff was very wise.
And a lot of it was very hateful.
It’s one of those paradoxes.
I think I mentioned earlier, I went into trance and supposedly had him speak through me.
So we trusted him enough to let that happen.
And a lot of the rituals we did were out of his books.
We did Gnostic Masses, we did the Bornless Ritual, we did some of his other rituals.
In fact, everyday, we did his Sun Salutations at morning, noon, evening and midnight.
It was, like, we weren’t ever officially Thelemites even though we did belong to the O.T.O., but we were unofficially very much into him.
S: And what advice would you give to people now who have a curiosity about his writings?
B: Well, even during … even when we were into this stuff … a lot of people would write and say, “Beware of what Crowley writes.”
Because he deliberately does some things backwards just to mess with people’s minds.
He’ll give you magickal instructions, that looked like a recipe, on how to do a ritual, and he will deliberately … and we even knew this … and so we would go to the spirit guides and they would tell us, supposedly, what was right.
But he would deliberately put booby traps in his books.
And if you did one wrong thing it would blow up in your face.
Magickally you could end up in a lunatic asylum.
B: So … and a lot of people … see, that was our generation, that came up in the 60s and 70s, and unfortunately a lot of the people who are messing … because he’s more popular now than he ever was during his life.
And a lot of the people who are messing around with Crowley don’t understand it.
They end up getting demon-possessed to their eyeballs.
He ended up, basically, in his life, a total failure.
I mean, he spent the last 2 or 3 years of his life living in this rented room next to a cemetery in Brighton, living on heroin and boiled eggs.
I mean, he was a hopeless heroin addict for the last third of his life.
So, even though he believed … he would actually get himself addicted to heroin, because he thought his will … you see, again, Thelema – ‘will’ … was strong enough to break free of the drug.
But obviously it wasn’t.
So I would tell people, this is a lot of very dangerous, anti-Christian … not just because it’s anti-Christian … but just dangerous philosophy.
Every person this man touched died horribly.
I mean, they either killed themselves, their lives were ruined, they became alcoholics, they became drug addicts.
I mean, hardly anybody survived a relationship with Crowley – only two people that I know of – Israel Regardie and Frater Achad.
Israel Regardie was a psychiatrist so he had the mental where-withal to withstand the games … because Crowley would do stuff … like he knew for example that Israel Regardie was Jewish – and Crowley was very anti-Semitic, even though he was into Kabbalah, which sounds really bizarre – and so he would call him, “Oh, that stupid Yid.”
Or he would make all these anti-Semitic remarks.
And he would just mess with people’s heads.
And be cruel to them.
Whatever he knew was important to an individual he would attack that, and just make total mush out of a person if he could.
And he was proud of the fact that he drove people to suicide.
B: See, he felt if someone was weak enough that they would go out and kill themselves, then they didn’t deserve to live.
Again, you know, he called himself “The wickedest man in the world.”
And was proud of the fact that that was what the London newspapers called him as well.
S: Wow. Thank you.
I just, for readers, was going to give a few quotes from the Satanic Bible, to give them an idea of how bad it is; so …
S: “Give blow for blow, eye for eye, fourfold and a hundred fold….
Cursed are the lambs of God for they shall be bled whiter than snow …
Cursed are the feeble, for they shall be blotted out …
Thrice cursed are the weak, whose insecurity makes them vile, for they shall serve and suffer”
Have you got any advice for people who have a curiosity to read the Satanic Bible?
B: Well, I would say that it is certainly one of the most evil books written in the 20th Century, and I would advise them to not even read the thing.
It’s a powerful talisman, even of itself.
To even have it in your home is dangerous.
We have a copy, but we keep it out in a box in the shed.
It’s just not a book you would want to read.
Because it’s hateful. It’s full of hate.
It’s full of hatred towards all the unfortunate people of society, hatred towards God, hatred towards people.
And I would say is that it’s as easy a way as any to really burn your soul – to read that book.
Because it will draw you in …
Just like, I had never had any … I just read … I picked it up because this friend of mine told me to … and I read it.
I never had any intention of becoming a member of the Church of Satan.
But yet a year later I was in it.
A year after that I was a 2nd degree member of it.
So, it can draw you in.
These occult books have incredible power to pull people in.
And people don’t realize that.
They think, “Oh, it’s just a book.”
S: So many people think that these days,
S: So your testimony is wonderful.
B It is very, very ruinous, and I would advise everybody to stay away from it.
I know there is, “Oh, it’s forbidden”, or “It’s evil” or “It’s wicked, so I want to read it” – especially young people tend to think that way.
But, it’ll just destroy your life if you take it seriously.
And if you don’t take it seriously, why read it?
Can you give me some evidence that reading the Satanic Bible makes people more violent?
B: Well, there have been several killers – serial killers, rogue killers, whatever, that have been found … like Richard Ramirez is the best-known one, nightstalker, who had the Satanic Bible in their possession.
Son of Sam, comes to mind as well.
There were a lot of lesser known creeps who were out there killing women or children that had possession of the Satanic Bible.
So it’s an extremely dangerous book.
S: You said that Satanists think that Hell is an okay place, but if some of them finally work out that they actually really are going to get punished for the bad things they’ve done, why don’t they try to leave Satanism then?
B: Well, on a lower level a lot of them do.
I mean, a lot of Church of Satan members have gotten away and gotten saved.
But of course it takes the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of Yahweh Almighty.
The higher level ones, even such as I was, you are dealing with a person who has got a tremendous amount of demonic infestation, and if you start moving in the direction of getting away from Satanism, those demons can just really put a world of hurt on you.
They can control the pain centers in your brain, and make you just wish you were dead.
I mean, like you go towards reading a Bible or kneeling at the altar of something and praying to be saved, they just will make you feel like you have got the grandmother of all headaches.
It’s like stimulus-response, just like you would treat an animal.
And so it’s only, again, by the grace of Yahweh and the power of the Holy Spirit that anyone can get free from these things.
Even Anton LaVey’s own son, Anthony, he got Born Again, mostly through reading our books.
And now he corresponds with us all the time.
It’s weird to get a Christmas card from Anthony LaVey.
But we do.
B: So that’s a real praise report.
And many … I’m not the only one.
Many … I get emails at least several times a year from former Satanists that our new joyfully serving the True and Living Yahweh.
So if someone has sold their soul to Satan, how can they undo that agreement?
B: Well, first of all, unless they are a Christian, their soul belongs to Satan from the moment they were born anyway, so the agreement is sort of a joke.
But all that they have to do is simply turn over their live to Yahushua, to Jesus Christ.
And they need to get down on their knees.
I’d recommend doing it with a preacher of some sort who knows what he’s doing, because to do this alone can … I did it alone … but it can be a little daunting because there might be some spiritual attack.
And just pray and confess that you are a sinner.
Pray and renounce the Satanic oaths that you took in your membership in the Church of Satan and say it’s evil, I don’t want anymore to do with it, I’m sorry that I did it.
And then ask Yahushua to come into your life and be the Lord of your life, the master of your life, and ask him to save you from your sins and from the power of the adversary.
At that moment, that contract is broken.
B: Now that isn’t to say that you might not need a few prayers for liberation after that, but in terms of your eternal destiny, that contract was broken.
S: Okay, good.
Is there any other advice you would give to Satanists?
B: Well, they need to repent. They need to get out of it.
Because frankly they are on the losing side.
I mean, the scriptures have never been wrong about one single prophecy that has been in those books of the Bible.
And so why would they be wrong about the last book of the Bible, the Book of Revelation, where it says that all liars and fornicators and sorcerers that mock Yahweh will end up being cast into the lake of fire, along with the Devil, along with his fallen angels.
And you don’t want to have that happen to you.
That is a horrible destiny that nobody can even imagine.
But it’s a fit destiny for those who turn their back on Yahushua and on the true and living Yahweh.
S: Thank you.
What advice would you give to people who know someone who is a Satanist?
B: Well, at the risk of sounding mercenary, I suggest they buy my book “Lucifer Dethroned” because that book is my autobiography, Number one.
It’s a survey of modern day Satanism, Number two.
And Number Three, it has a whole large chapter in the back about how to witness, how to minister to someone who is in Satanism and get them Born Again.
But quickly, my number One advice would be to start praying for that individual.
Start praying for them and start binding the spirits in the name of Yahushua. that are giving them their occult power,
That’s the best thing you can do because if they realize that there is a more powerful force than the demons that seem to be giving them their power, it’s going to really rattle their cage.
And because they have been conditioned by their training in Satanism to want power, even though it’s not the immediately best reason, they are going to kind of turn from Satanism and try to figure out, okay, what’s making this happen.
And they are going to find themselves led to the Cross.
Let me share one quick thing I heard from Henry Gruver who is a real prayer warrior.
He says that what he does when he encounters Satanists or a Satanic ritual site … you know, some place that appears to be being used by Satanists … he will pray that everyone there, any Satanist, Witch, Druid, whatever, will be confronted by the power and the glory of Yahushua.
That they will somehow see it.
And that they will either be so awestruck with it that they will bow the knee and worship him as Almighty Yahweh or else they will flee in abject terror and never come back.
That’s a good prayer.
S: And does that work?
B: It does. He’s dismantled entire networks of black witches over in England by doing that.
S: Great. Thank you.
What different kinds of magic are there?
Well, basically … we touched on this very quickly earlier, there is everything from what is called folk magic, which is very primitive and usually relates to people who are in developing countries and things like that, and this is stuff like, for example, a farmer and his wife might go out after he has planted the seeds of his crop for the year, and the first night of the full moon they might go out and make love in the field, to give fertile energy to the field to help the crops grow better.
That would be an example of folk magic.
Or, various ideas, like you have to plant potatoes on Good Friday or something, or you have to do this … you know, the Farmer’s Almanac stuff is part of it – not that the Farmer’s Almanac is Witchcraft, but I mean, as an example of these kind of folksy things that people do.
Then there is like what is called Cultural Spiritism. This is kind of the next notch up.
These are more organized groups that are usually part of an ethnic group.
The best known would be Voodoo.
Santeria, Umbanda, Palo Mayumbe – these are all groups that are a mixture of Catholicism and ancient African religions that have sprung up in places like Brazil and Cuba and Haiti and Mexico. Places like that.
These are very powerful and very dangerous forms of magic. Black magic.
And then there is what is called Witchcraft which we’ve already touched on.
Then there is Ceremonial Magick, which is this very high, ritualized form of magick, and all of these things you understand can either be white or black magick.
Although typically, especially the Cultural Spiritist types, tend to be more black magic.
And then there is what is called Hermetic Magick, which is when you arrive at level where you can do purely mental magick, without having any props, without having to wave around sticks or swords or anything like that.
And you just use those three things I mentioned earlier – to be relaxed, to be able to visualize what you want and then to have the desire or the intent to make it happen.
S: And do they all use demons to give them power or are there other things that give them power?
B: They don’t know, for the most part, that they are using demons.
I mean, a lot of these Cultural Spiritists call upon … they think they are calling upon ancestors.
They think in Voodoo they call upon the Loa, who are like ancient gods that have Catholic masks on them.
But, yes, ultimately all of these different kinds of magic draw their power from demons, or from fallen angels.
S: And how do you know that?
B: Well, again, because of the fact that in our experience when we come against them now as Christians, if we pray and bind the evil spirits that are behind these various kinds of groups, in the name of Yahushua, their power just falls apart, just like a house of cards.
S: Okay, that would work. Thanks.
So how long did you do white magic for?
B: Well, 16 years.
S: Okay. And how long did you do black magic for?
B: Well, you see, you can do white and black magic at the same time.
B: So I probably did black magic for about 3 or 4 years.
S: What’s the difference between white and black magic?
B: Well, white magic is … well …. I’ll make it simple.
White magic is basically doing stuff for altruistic or ‘good’ reasons.
It would be things like healing someone, doing a spell to help someone to get a job, you know stuff that would be very similar about what you might go into a prayer meeting in a church and ask for prayer for.
It’s usually not of a selfish nature.
And it’s with good intent.
A white magician never knowingly wants to hurt anyone.
Black magic, as you might guess, is just the opposite.
It’s when your intentions are, at best, selfish, or at worst, evil.
And you deliberately, at the very least, you are trying to get what you want, no matter what happens to anybody else.
And then it goes downhill from there.
And you get to the point where ultimately Black Magicians like to do evil just for the pure sake of evil.
S: I see.
Did you get any hints while you were doing magick that Christians have more power than white or black Witches?
B: I actually had very little … in fact, I really never met a true Christian while I was a Witch.
You know, so it was difficult for me to get that kind of a sense.
The closest I think would be the thing I mentioned earlier where we tried to curse that woman who was the daughter of a Christian preacher and all of the curses bounced back.
And at the time …we just didn’t … I think the Devil had somehow clouded my mind,
I don’t think I really ‘got’ it.
It didn’t occur to me to ask, “Well, gee, why is this measly woman able to turn aside all of these mighty curses?”
You know, we threw every curse that we knew, some of the raunchiest, vilest curses in the book.
And they all just bounced off like Styrofoam balls off an armor plated tank.
S: And normally would something have stuck?
B: Oh, yes. Normally, if we weren’t doing that to a Christian, those things can kill people.
I mean, some of those … like for example, that fellow I mentioned earlier who was so evil and whose apartment I stayed in, I mean, he would do rituals on people that he didn’t like, and they would have, like, within 24 hours they would have centipedes clawing their way out of the person’s stomach.
B: I mean, that’s the kind of thing you can do in Voodoo.
Voodoo is incredibly powerful.
But we used Voodoo curses against this woman and – pphht – no effect.
S: I see.
From your own experience, what can you tell us about alternate universes and alternate realities?
B: Well, that’s part of some of the stuff that we were getting into with the Lovecraftian metaphysics, Transyuggothian magick and some of the stuff that this fellow was also teaching us.
Part of it is called Alternate Universe, Sirius Star System magick, and that’s Sirius the star, not ‘serious’ like being serious.
And part of it is called Archaeometry
And the idea is that a magician learns how to penetrate the membrane between universes and that he goes, or she goes, into a new universe, because of course even in physics today they are telling us that they believe that there are millions of alternate universes out there.
The Quantum Physicists talk about that.
So, what we would do was penetrate the membrane between universes and go into a new universe that we would refer to as a virgin universe.
And there would be this enormous amount of magickal power available because it’s totally untapped – there is no life in this universe.
And so you create life with the occult power that you already have.
And then you become the god or goddess, the supreme deity of that universe.
This is what we were taught.
And then, if you really know what you are doing, you have the ability to take some of the power, because think of it – think of how vast just a single universe is – just how many galaxies – they say there are billions of galaxies out there, each of which has billions of stars.
Think of the energy which is in a universe.
And you have the ability then, supposedly, as a magician, to pull this energy through the membrane back into this universe in which you live and use it for your own purposes.
So, that’s basically one of the highest and most dangerous forms of magick.
S: Thank you.
How did demons communicate to you?
B: Mostly through hearing voices in your head.
That was the most common way.
I mean, rarely if I was doing some kind of real big evil evocation or something, I’d actually conjure one up and … it’s not a pretty sight.
S: What do they look like?
B: Well, it’s almost impossible to describe, because they are not of a human shape.
They are more insect like and they are very … they take form from the incense that you are burning, because they can’t normally manifest in a physical way.
So they are very ugly, and they are very small but oddly enough they are very formidable looking.
They look kind of like an insect-like thing except more like … imagine like a giant cockroach or something, except more like a praying mantis/cockroach cross.
See, it’s hard to describe the indescribable.
S: I see. When you heard them or saw them, how did you know it wasn’t your imagination?
B: Well, first of all, I didn’t.
Except that quite often they would tell me things that I would have no way of knowing in the natural realm.
I mean, they would give me access to information that was beyond my range of knowledge.
S: I see. So why do most people get into Black Magic?
B: Well, first of all they don’t start out that way.
Usually they start out dabbling in the occult, or Witchcraft or white magic and then it’s a seductive thing.
It’s just like, everybody thinks, “Oh well, I can smoke dope but I won’t get into the weird, hard drugs like meth or heroine or cocaine”.
And it doesn’t always work that way.
I mean, some people can continue to just muck around in white magic their whole lives and be fine, except of course they are lost and on their way to Hell.
But most people who start out with magic … see, the power of magick is the ultimate addiction.
It’s more addictive than heroine, it’s more addictive than cocaine, it’s more addictive than anything I’ve ever experienced in my life.
And like any other addiction, you develop a tolerance to it.
In other words the body / mind / spirit gets bored with a certain level of power.
And you want more power.
And after a while you begin to reason, as I did, that the only way to get more power, at least without of course going to Yahweh, is to go into black magic.
Or, you start out, of course, just doing grey magick – you know, ethically challenged magick.
And then you move further and further into black magick.
And if you aren’t stopped, as I was, by the power of the Holy Spirit, you can end up doing some very, very, very nasty things.
S: And what eventually happened to most of the black magicians you knew?
B: They went insane, or they committed suicide, or their lives were ruined.
I’ve heard stories of people finding a magick circle with a lump of what looks like hamburger meat in the middle.
Can you tell us about what they are?
B: A failed magickal working.
By that I mean, a magician tried to conjure up some demon, and kind of like the story I told about the garage and the fellow with the magick circle in there who ended up basically getting vaporized, if you do one wrong move when you are doing one of these high level ceremonial magickal workings, you basically end up looking like road kill.
S: How many times did you know of that that actually happened?
B: Well, in my personal experience, only a couple of times, 2 or 3.
S: And friends of friends?
B: Yes, that includes friends of friends.
It’s not like it happens a lot because frankly, most … first of all, you have to realize, there are not a lot of ceremonial magicians out there.
I mean, the ratio is probably 100 Witches to one ceremonial magician.
And then there are not … I mean, there are thousands of Witches but …
So, I mean … and then, of those ceremonial magicians, a lot of them never really get any results.
I think I told you how we did this elaborate ritual of Abramelin the Mage and got our Holy Guardian Angel to appear and all of this stuff and got all of these talismans and then – pphht – it didn’t work.
You know, so a lot of times, some times the magick works, and sometimes it doesn’t.
B: So, when you factor all that in …
I mean, probably a good ceremonial magician will get only 2 or 3 really powerful magickal workings in a given few years.
S: Okay. Thanks.
What is the ‘Tree of Life’?
B: Well, the ‘Tree of Life’ is an old thing … well, of course, it’s even mentioned in the Book of Genesis, but it’s been used for thousands of years as a symbol of Jewish mysticism in what is called the Kabbalah.
And magicians use the backside of the Tree of Life which is called the “Qlifotic Tree” and unfortunately a lot of occult types have kind of been using both sides of the “Tree of Life” and kind of messing around with it and dabbling with it in a way that isn’t what the original intention of the ancient Kabbalists was.
But, what we did, was through this alternate universe business we would enter through dimensional gateways into the backside of the Tree of Life, the Qlifotic Tree, and there we would find these alternate universes.
And also there was what was called the Typhonian Tunnels.
The tunnels of Typhon, and Typhon is the Egyptian Destroyer god.
And we would use these tunnels to go from universe to universe to universe.
And in that way we would acquire more and more power.
S: Thank you.
What is the Necromonicon? – or how do you say it?
S: Right, say that again?
B: Yes, well a lot of people think it’s just a fictitious book that a kind of science fantasy horror writer named H.P. Lovecraft made up about 100 years ago, but actually there really is such a book.
It’s probably one of the most powerful and dangerous grimoirs, that is to say, magickal workbooks, that is out there.
And it basically goes all the way back to ancient Sumer.
And it has rituals by which you can supposedly call upon the Great Old Ones and these ancient gods and, you know, blah, blah, blah.
I’ll give you an illustration of how dangerous it is.
About 25 years ago they published a limited edition of just some of the mildest stuff out of the real Necromonicon in a limited edition book, limited to 666 copies.
And oddly enough it was dedicated in the front cover, it said, the dedication was, “Ad Maiorum Crowley Gloriam”, which is a parody of the Jesuit motto, “To the greater glory of Crowley.”
And the fellow that I knew at the occult bookstore in Milwaukee, he said he sold one of these to a very skilled, high level magician in the community.
And the guy took it home and within 24 hours his 3 year old daughter had gone into the bathtub and cut her throat from ear to ear with a razor and killed herself.
B: So he brought the book back.
The second fellow, another fairly skilled magician, bought a copy of the book.
He lived in a high rise apartment overlooking Lake Michigan.
He went home with it.
As soon as he walked into the door – he had this beautiful black cat – big, furry, black cat – and the black cat went HISSSS, like this, and it started running around the room like it was demon-possessed, just like as fast as a cat could possibly go.
And then – this is really bizarre, if you know how these apartments are constructed – because all of a sudden it went like this, and shot through the tempered glass window like a cannon ball, and dropped 20 or 30 stories to its death.
B: So he brought the book back.
And then we bought it, and – for whatever reason – we had it and we did some of the rituals and we had some very bizarre things happen, but nothing fatal, nothing that threatening to us.
And I believe it was because Yahweh was watching over us.
S: Right. And what advice would you give to people who have an interest in peeping into it.
B: Well, I would say … first of all, it’s incomplete.
The rituals are all partial because the real Necromonicon is locked up where nobody except very high level Satanists and the Pope can get at it.
There’s a copy in the Vatican I’ve been told.
And there is a copy that I was allowed to copy from, but I was never allowed to have it in my possession.
And I understand there are maybe 12 copies extant in the world.
And so … for one thing, the book you are buying, which is available anywhere, you can buy it at Barnes and Noble, it isn’t even the real thing.
It’s just like tiny snippets of it.
And secondly, it involves a kind of magick that is so soul destroying and so … I mean, it’s like your soul withers, even in the presence of that book, it’s that evil.
So people shouldn’t even open the book if they go past Barnes and Noble?
B: I wouldn’t, no.
S: Okay, thank you.
What do you have to say about Harry Potter?
B: Well, I think that it’s a series of books that’s highly underrated in terms of the danger.
They are basically Witchcraft 101.
They teach kids to love sorcery.
They teach kids situational ethics that … like for example the Pagan Federation over in England reported that when the first Harry Potter book took off over there, their phone inquiries from young teenagers on how to become a Witch, went up 1900 % in one year.
That’s a pretty spectacular increase.
We have a whole video about that – it’s called “To Harry, or not to Harry.”
And basically, we think that they are very cleverly packaged things that teach kids about the occult.
And they teach … see, this is the important thing … they teach kids that magick is an effective method of solving problems.
Because that’s what Harry and his friends do.
They use magick to solve problems.
And we have tracked more than 150 and so far I think there are now , 6 or … I forget how many books there are now … but we have tracked more than 150 genuine occult practices.
Yes, some things in the books are made up, like the Quidditch game, but there are more than 150 occult practices in those books that are really being done right now by magicians.
So, these things are … I mean, if you want your kid to be a witch, let him read Harry Potter.
S: So, could a child pick up demons from reading Harry Potter?
B: I think it’s very likely. Yes.
I would never let me child near one.
S: Okay, thank you.
In your experience, are ghosts real?
B: Yes and no (laugh).
I mean, I don’t think they are disembodied phantoms of the formerly living waltzing around here on the earth plane.
But I think there are what are called familiar spirits, that are in the business of deceiving us human beings into thinking there are dead people walking around.
And I think a lot of times demons are attracted to places that have had violence or blasphemy or other very serious sins done in them.
Like, you know, if there has been a murder in a house, like the classic case of the Amytville Horror – that kind of violence will definitely attract hordes of demon spirits because they feed off that malignant energy, that hatred.
And so a person comes and lives in that house, and they are going to have all sorts of weird things happen, that aren’t ghosts.
They are just demons trying to mess around and create evil and deceive people, because if people are deceived into believing ghosts, then they are going to end up going to a spiritualist medium or someone, and they are going to be fed a line of totally unscriptural nonsense about the after life.
And about what the fate is of the living.
They’ll be told, “Oh, there’s no Hell.”
You know, there is just this great white light and everybody just goes to the light.
Like this John Edward and some of these other people out there who are mediums.
And they are going to be deceived.
That’s why hauntings take place – to deceive people.
I mean, even in my case, partly I got into the occult because I started reading these books by Hans Holzer, about how he would go in and visit haunted houses and he’d use a medium to crack the case and get the ghost out of the house.
S: Did you ever see a ghost?
B: Well, having said all of that, obviously I’d have to say ‘no’.
B: But, I have seen manifestations that were supposed to be ghosts. Yes.
S: I see. You saw something that someone else would call a ghost?
B: In other words, we’ve done many, many haunted houses. We were ghost busters 10 years before the movie came out.
And upon occasion we would see white diaphanous shapes or dark shapes moving through a room, like …
The only way I can describe it is it’s like they are on roller skates, with no visible means of locomotion.
But see those things are demonic, they aren’t real spirits.
They are trying to deceive people.
S: I see. Thank you.
What is a Mormon?
B: Well, a Mormon is a nickname for a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,
which is a very large, very successful cult, basically, to be blunt.
I mean, there are Mormons that would wince to hear that, but the church was started in 1830 by a farmboy named Joseph Smith who was basically a conman, who let the con let his con get the better of him.
And today they are headquartered in Salt Lake City in Utah.
They have 10 or 11 million (10,000,000 or 11,000,000) members worldwide.
They are a very wealthy church.
They are the wealthiest church per capita in the world.
And basically they preach a gospel which appears to be Christian, but actually is not.
S: Why did you join their church?
B: Well, at the bottom of all of this weirdness that I was in, when I was even into Vampirism, and drinking blood and practising black magick, a lady started praying for me, because I had sent a check to the Church of Satan.
And we … I especially was knocked on my pins by that prayer, and everything in my life was shattered.
I cried out … because once Yahweh starts moving into your life, all bets are off.
I mean, he can just throw the whole chess table over any time he wants to.
And sometimes you have to get your life shattered in order to really realize that you are at the bottom of the toilet, circling the drain.
So, I cried out for a sign.
And at first, Yahweh sent me these two Satanists to bring me some Christian comics that taught me how to get Born Again, but I couldn’t be bothered with reading them.
So, within a day or two, Mormon missionaries showed up at our door.
Now, you see, this Grand Master Druid who I studied under several years earlier, about 6 years before, he had told us that if we ever got into deep spiritual trouble, that I should join the Mormon Church.
Because it was a church that had been founded by sorcerers for sorcerers, for a place where you could hang out and appear to be a good, white bread, Christian, All-American person and you could still believe virtually all the stuff that Witches believe.
So that’s why we joined the Church.
S: Wow. And how high up did you go in that Church?
B: Well, we, we, I … women don’t really get to be high. They just get to be mothers.
I got to be an Elders Quorum President, which is like right underneath the Bishop.
My wife and I both got Temple Recommends.
We got to go to the Temple and receive our endowments, which is like the spiritual gold seal of Mormonism.
I mean, only an elite number, only 10 or 15% of all Mormons ever get to go to the Temple.
So, we were pretty high up.
I actually was a paid teacher of theology for the Church education system.
I was very zealous in my Mormon faith.
S: And how many years were you in the Mormon Church?
B: 5 years
S: What do Mormons believe?
B: Well, that’s a big question, but to cut to the parts that make them not a Christian religion.
First of all, they have God wrong.
They believe that Heavenly Father is basically a superhuman extraterrestrial.
He has a body and parts and passions, as they put it, and he lives on a planet called Kolob in the heart of the galaxy.
They believe that his son, Jesus, is the spirit brother of Lucifer.
He is not Almighty Yahweh, made flesh.
They also believe that we are not saved by grace alone, but we are saved by grace and then keeping the laws and ordinances of the gospel.
They also have a lot of weird other beliefs but those right there … Oh, and they also believe that the Bible is not the inerrant word of God.
They believe the only perfect book in the world is the Book of Mormon.
S: Thank you.
Why do they baptize dead people?
B: Well, that’s one of their beliefs, is that… like the Mormon prophet, Spencer W. Kimball says that the Mormon church has 3 duties: To preach the gospel, to perfect the saints and to redeem the dead.
And this baptizing the dead comes under that.
They believe it is their mandate from the Almighty to go out and do genealogy and find out the names of every dead dude that ever lived, all the way back to Adam.
And they’ve already got millions of names in their genealogical data base in Salt Lake City.
And they believe that they have to baptize all of those people by proxy, because they say, what if someone lives in some place like Tanganyika or somewhere, and they have never heard about Joseph Smith.
They have never heard about the glorious restored gospel.
How are they going to get to Heaven?
And they said what is going to happen is this native African guy is going to die and they are going to go into spirit prison, which is sort of like a holding cell.
And they will wait there for a few thousand years till someone finally gets around to doing their genealogy and getting their name, and then they will go to the Temple and they will be baptized in the name of, you know, whatever their name is, Mugumbo of Tanganyika, and then they will get an opportunity in spirit prison to accept or reject that baptism.
If they accept it, then the prison doors are open and they get to go up to the Celestial Kingdom.
Do Mormons really believe that they will become gods?
B: Well, one of the early prophets of the church said, “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.”
And it is basically a doctrine of the Church that we are gods in embryo.
Or goddesses in embryo.
And every devout Mormon man believes that he will be a god someday.
And every devout Mormon woman believes that she will be a heavenly mother some day.
And that they will go off and spend all eternity procreating, and she will be eternally pregnant, and she will have billions and billions of spirit babies.
And they will populate their own planetary system with these babies.
Now, they don’t usually lay this concept on people right away, when they are just investigating the church.
They kind of wait 6, 9, 10 months to let them get acclimated to the church before they dump this on them.
Because it’s kind of whacko.
But, yes, that is what they believe.
They believe that anything less than godhood is damnation.
Bruce R McConkie was an apostle, the leading theologian of the last generation, taught that.
S: Wow. What do Mormons think of women?
B: Well, they obviously like them because they marry so many of them.
B: No, they don’t practice polygamy officially anymore.
But, they basically believe that women have their place.
They think women cannot hold the priesthood, or they can’t hold any ecclesiastical office in the church.
Their most important duty is to be pregnant and have lots of babies.
S: And are Mormon women happy with that?
B: Well, some of them say they are.
They have their own organization, it’s called the Relief Society, which is sort of like a women’s auxiliary of the LDS church.
But there are a lot of Mormon feminists – one of them very shrill – I forget her name, about 10 years ago, who chained herself to the doors of the Mormon Temple of Salt Lake and stuff like that.
But, most women say they are happy with that.
Some don’t, and Mormons get divorces just like any other religious group.
But, see, they are held over them – they cannot be saved without their husband.
He can choose to leave them on the ground on resurrection morning and not resurrect them, because a Mormon wife is not resurrected by Yahushua, she is resurrected by her husband.
S: So, that’s my next question.
What are the spiritual consequences of a Mormon woman who’s single or with a husband who’s not a Mormon?
B: A gentile – that’s what they call non-Mormons, they call them gentiles.
In fact, the Mormon Church is the only religion where you can be Jewish and gentile at the same time.
Because if you are not a Jewish Mormon, you are a gentile Jew.
Anyhow, the consequences – if you are single woman, you cannot achieve the highest degree of glory.
You have to be married, and you have to have children in order to achieve the highest degree of glory.
Which means you are going to be stuck in the Terrestrial Kingdom with all of the slackers, if you are a single woman, or if you are married to a non-Mormon.
So basically a woman is shut out of the highest degree of glory unless she’s been married in the Temple.
That’s the goal of every Mormon who’s really sold out for their faith, is to be married and to be – the word is to be sealed – for time and all eternity in the temple.
S: What’s a celestial marriage in the Mormon temple?
B: Well, that’s what I’m just referring to – they believe that the Mormon prophet originally, back in Joseph Smith’s day, was given the keys to unlock Celestial Marriage, among other things.
And what Celestial Marriage is, is the idea that … you know, most people believe you are married till death do you part.
That’s the standard wedding ceremony says.
Well Mormons teach that if you are married in the Temple, after receiving your endowment, which are these long, elaborate initiation rituals, then, if you are married in the Temple by a Patriarch holding the priesthood keys given to him by the prophet, then that marriage will last into eternity.
You can go on and continue that marriage and have all of these spirit babies I just mentioned.
So that’s what they mean by Celestial Marriage. And without having that Celestial Marriage, without being married in the Temple, basically you are damned in the Mormon Church.
And that’s Bruce R McConkie’s own words.
S: Thank you. How were you able to go up so high in the Mormon Church so quickly?
Doesn’t that normally take years?
B: No. The typical program, if you will – now mind you, we were very zealous, and we worked hard and everything, but normally they tell you that from the time you are baptized it should take about a year for you to become an Elder.
And once you are an Elder, you are eligible to apply for a Temple Recommend, and that’s like your key, if you will, to get into the Temple.
And you have to be interviewed, both you and your wife, if you are married, by both your Bishop, whose like the local congregational leader, and then by your stake President who’s like kind of the equivalent of a Bishop, say, in the Catholic Church.
It’s sort of confusing, but that’s how it is.
And you are asked all of these pointed questions about your personal life, if you are being faithful to your wife, if you cuss and swear at the job site, if you have dirty magazines hidden under your bed, you know … if you beat your wife.
I mean, any number of a number of things can disqualify you from getting a Temple Recommend.
But then once you get the Temple Recommend then you can go to the Temple and get your Patriarchal Blessing.
S: Thank you.
S: Horrible. Yuck. Thank you.
Part 2: Channelling, Freemasonry
Part 3: Freemasonry, Catholicism, Mormonism
Part 4: Catholic Church, Luciferianism, Satanism
Part 5: Satanism, Saturn, Cathedral of Pain
Part 6: Satanism, White magic, Black magic, Mormonism
Part 7: Mormonism, Reptilians, Satanism, Voodoo, Zombies
Part 8: Black magic, Walt Disney, Vampires
Part 9: Vampires, Werewolves, Illuminati
Copyright ©: Stephanie Relfe 2014 – 3000
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