Interview with an Ex-Vampire – A True Story









S: Bill, please describe what it means to become a trance channeller or a medium.

B: Well, that basically means you are trained to develop the ability, supposedly, to communicate with departed human beings, dead people.

And this is something that people want – it’s not like in that movie “The Sixth Sense” where the kid was scared to death because he was involuntarily seeing dead people.

And there are many, many – they are called spiritualist churches – they have other terms they use – where people actually … that is their church service.

People come to these little churches.

And they sing some hymns.

And then the medium who is usually the minister of the church gets up there

and he or she will have a spirit guide, who will come and be like the Master of Ceremonies.

And this spirit guide will say something like, “Okay, dear old Uncle Harry is here and wants to come and talk to his nephew”.

Or, “Grandma so-and-so wants to talk to her grandson”.

And then the voice changes and supposedly these different personalities come through.

And they talk.

And quite often there are different sounding voices.

And sometimes they will actually share stuff that supposedly only the person who was departed would know.

And that’s essentially the basis of the Spiritualist religion.

S: Thank you.

B: Now I would say, let me add one thing, not to interrupt,

but when you get to the field of trance channelling, which is kind of the more modern New Age word for what used to be called mediumship, you have this additional layer of chic, shall we say,

where instead of just having some average dead person who nobody knows who they are, instead you have some mighty awesome being from the past.

The most obvious example is J.Z. Knight, a lady out in Washington who has Ramtha, who is this 35,000 year old Atlantean warrior prince.

You know, you aren’t just channelling some …

This whole thing was started by Madame Blavatsky who began by channelling Ascended Masters.

And that’s kind of an octave higher in terms of the pretension of it.

That instead of just having regular old dead people, you are channelling these immortal beings that like semi-gods.

S: Okay. How and why did you become a spiritualist medium?

B: Well, early on both my wife and I, once we got together we ran across this really very, very sweet, very intelligent lady who was a professor at the University of Northern Iowa, who was the head of spiritualist church.

Her name was Barb Selwa.

And we got in touch with her and she said, “Well, you guys ought to come into our organization”.

Partly because we were interested in mediumship.

Because we knew, for example, Sibil Leek, who was one of the very famous early pioneers of witchcraft, was also a medium.

She used to work with the famous ghosthunter Hans Holzer as a medium.

So, we thought, “Oh, that would fit, to be a witch and a medium”.

Plus it would give us a tax umbrella.

You know, she had a 501-C3 tax organization that we could thereby accept free will offerings from people.

So, we took courses from her.

There was a whole course of study, and she basically trained the both of us to be mediums.

And we used it for our own, what we thought at the time, was spiritual development –

to communicate with these high level beings.

And we each had three or four ascended master spirit guides that would give us all this profound spiritual instruction and everything.

And so it was intended to be a way that we could help ourselves and others that we would give readings for, to grow spiritually and to understand their karma and their past lives and all that kind of stuff.

S: Okay. And how long were you a medium for?

B: Probably about 15 or 14 years.

S: Okay. Do people really channel dead people, or is that a ghost, or what?

B: Well, the bible to me seems pretty clear that except in the most extraordinary circumstances there is no communication between the living and the dead.

There is a gulf between us.

So, what my belief, and it’s based on scripture, is that these entities that are coming through that are speaking, whether they are supposedly ascended masters or whether they are departed loved ones are actually familiar spirits, what the Bible calls familiar spirits.

And people shouldn’t be surprised because, I mean, a demon spirit would know everything about a person’s intimate life.

So they could reveal all sorts of information through this medium.

And “Oh, wow, this guy’s really communicating with the departed”.

But actually I believe they are mostly familiar spirits who are doing the communicating.

I have no reason to believe that any genuine dead person ever communicated with the living.

S: Okay, thank you. So what would happen during a normal session of channelling?

B: Well, for us, we would have a bunch of people sitting around in chairs in a circle.

And amazingly we would start by saying some very nice old Protestant hymns, like “The old Roman cross” or “Walk in the garden” or “Amazing Grace” or something to raise the vibes you know.

And then the medium who was presiding would go into trance.

And this would involve basically a lot of heavy breathing.

We were trained that you would breath in the spirit, like almost you were doing pranayama, and let him or her fill your etheric body and so that there is this little bit of you left up here in what would be called the crown chakra.

And the whole rest of your body is inhabited by the spirit.

And then – it varies – but basically you would stand up and walk from person to person in the circle and the spirit guide would give them a reading.

You know, tell them things.

Usually there wasn’t a question and answer type of exchange.

It was just, like, “I feel that the spirit is telling me to say to you, blah, blah, blah”.

And then you give them some kind of message which may or may not have any way of being checked.

You know, if you tell someone, “Well, 5,000 years ago, you were a Sumerian princess”, how are you going to know that?

There is no way to really check that scientifically.

But that was kind of what happened.

And then if there was healing needed, the person who was channelling this spirit might even lay hands on someone and pray for them to be healed.

(laugh) Anyway, I’m not going to go there …. it’s just that there are some interesting stories about healing in these spiritualist circles that show that they don’t work very well.

S: Okay, just tell one.

B: Well, okay. One time I was in a circle and I was just in training and the lady beside me had a uterine infection.

And I prayed for her to be healed and I got a uterine infection! – which is a pretty good trick when you don’t have a uterus.

But I went to the doctor and he said,

“Well, I don’t believe this but you are testing in your blood for the kind of infection that women usually get in their uterus. I have never heard of a man getting it”.

S: Wow.

B: So it was like kind of an empathetic healing thing that went whacko.

S: How is a dead person meant to heal someone?

B: Well, these aren’t just … you have to realize these ascended masters aren’t just dead people.

They are mighty demi-god, archangelic supposed type beings.

Which is not really true, but that’s the belief.

See we had a hierarchy.

There were what were called regular old plain, dead-people.

Then there were spirit guides.

Then you had what was called a “Life guide”.

And he was the one, special spirit guide who stayed with you from the moment you were born to the moment you died.

And he was more advanced.

The other guides might come and go, but your Life guide would stay with you all through your life.

And mine was supposedly a 15th century Franciscan monk named Ambrosius.

Then, over your Life guide, we were taught that there what were called “doctors of divinity”.

That has nothing to do with a theological degree.

It’s, like, a very powerful super, super guide who is so awesome that they hardly ever even come into your body and take you over which is a very good thing.

Because for example, one night I had one come in and take me over, and I got about half of this head of white hair in one night.

Just from this guide being in me.

S: Wow.

B: Because they just drain all of the life force out of you.

And I was told later by a different spirit guide that just because this mighty great doctor of divinity was in me for, say, 15 or 20 minutes, he sucked 5 years of my life span.

S: Wow.

B: Which I do not receive, now that I am a Christian.

S: Good.

B: But at the time, you know, that was very … that scared my wife very badly.

It was a very scary time.

S: And did you decide to stop it, because of … ?

B: That never happened again.

S: Right.

B: I actually swelled up like a tick and ripped out of the robes I was wearing.

It was kind of like that old television series, “The incredible hulk”, where the guy would rip out of his clothes.

She didn’t know what was going on, because she was sitting there and kind of helping me through this, and all of a sudden …

This is not something that they prepare you for in medium school.

But, we got through it.

But she thought I was going to die there for a while.

It was pretty frightening I am sure.

It was frightening for me too, because there is enough of you conscious within these experiences even though you are kind of in a dream state, that I knew my heart was going boom, boom, boom – you know, like 180 beats a minute.

And it was like I was having a seizure or something.

But it was just this mighty doctor of divinity.

And you would think if they were that powerful and that mighty that they would know enough than to come into a human body and do that to somebody, wouldn’t you?

S: Mmm.

B: But again, that just illustrates that these are actually demons that don’t really know what they are doing.

I mean, a demon is as dumb as a box of rocks.

They don’t know what they are doing, and they only do what the higher-ups tell them to do.

S: What actually is a demon?

B: Well, that’s a controversial question.

But a demon is a low-level spiritual entity that’s lower on the spiritual food chain than a human being.

Some people believe … well there is an erroneous belief that they are fallen angels.

They are not.

Fallen angels are a much higher order of spiritual life.

The theory I fall into in terms of a theory for what demons are, is that back in Genesis 6, the fallen angels came down and had relations with human women.

And they produced offspring that were called the Nephilim – the mighty men of old, the men of renown.

And when those beings were drowned in the flood because they were half angelic, their spirits survived as demons.

And I think that is where the demons come from.

There is also the theory that they were born from the demon goddess Lilith who was supposedly the first wife of Adam.

That’s the rabbinical theory of it, but I don’t necessarily buy that.

And there are other theories as well.

S: Thank you. Who did you channel?

B: Well, I got them all.

I mean, I did everything –

Of course, I had my Life guide.

And I had about 4 or 5 guides.

One was an African witch doctor.

One was a native American –

We were very politically correct in those days.

But those were my regulars.

Beyond that I would have rare appearances by ‘Jesus’ – quote, unquote.

And at one time I channeled back when I was kind of drawing on the dark side of things in a deeper way, I had Nero come into me.

I had Aleister Crowley make frequent appearances, complete with British accent.

I had even Adolph Hitler come into me a few times and give me advice about how we needed to exterminate all the Jews.

S: Wow.

B: So, I mean, I went the gamut from the supposedly very nice to supposedly very nasty.

But of course, all of these were demons.

I mean, the ‘Jesus’ who came to me, was not the real Jesus.

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S: How did you know if he was Jesus or not?

B: Well, at the time, you see the principle is that you get into a trust working bond relationship with your Life guide.

And supposedly he is a high enough evolved being that he can keep away anybody nasty.

But even so, whenever a spirit comes to either speak or to even come into you, you are supposed to say – and I know we already talked about this – “Do you stand in the light?”

“Well, yes, of course I stand in the light, I’m a Luciferian whatever, you know”.

So that’s how you are supposed to screen these people.

But in theory, also, the Life guide would screen them.

He would say, “Oh, here’s ‘Jesus’, you know, the master ‘Jesus’, and he wants to speak to you”.

And then in comes ‘Jesus’ and away we would go.

S: Okay. I had the understanding that one problem with learning from spirit guides and that, is that they actually don’t have as much life experience as we do, so like, if you have a 15th century monk, can he tell you how to live in the 20th century?

B; Well, yes, except of course, the theory is – and I’m agreeing with you in practice –

but in theory they would say, well, these beings are up, and they have access to all the Akashic records, and they can see the past, the present and the future..

But you know what the funny thing is?

Because often my wife and I would do readings, almost every day, just privately between the two of us.

And we’d ask important questions.

Like life decisions we were making, whatever.

And it was like trying to do an I-ching reading –

Have you ever used the I-ching? It’s kind of like obscure Chinese fortune cookie answers.

You know, like you are trying to say, “Okay, should I take this job in West Alice, Wisconsin?”

And you know, the answer will be, “The superior man walks across the river and gathers rice beads.” or something.

And half the time these guides would give us these really obscure, strange kinds of answers.

And I think partly it was because the demons didn’t know the future.

You know, only Yahweh knows the future.

S: Right.

B: Only Yahweh knows the end from the beginning.

And so we get all this kind of flummery and amphigory and whatever, and we’d come out of the end of it, scratching our heads, and say, “Okay, what did that really mean?”

You know, that’s why – we are kind of digressing here – if you read a lot of the works of these supposed great trance channellers, like if you read Blavatskys’ writings or Elizabeth Clare Prophet or J.Z. Knight or some of these other people, it’s like reading sort of intellectual pudding.

It’s like trying to nail jello to the wall to get a concept out of their writing, because it’s all …

And it’s intended, I think it’s intended to be like that.

I think it’s like the intellectual version of like, kind of a Koan.

Where your mind freaks out because you can’t handle all of this vague nonsense.

S: Okay. Ascended masters are becoming very popular these days.

What would you say to people who love talking to ‘John the Baptist’ and ‘Jesus’ and all this?

B: Well, I would just tell them there is a passage in Isaiah Chapter 8 in the old testament where it says, “Why do you listen to mediums that peep and mutter? To the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them”.

Now what does that mean?

The law is of course the Torah, the Old Testament.

The testimony is the testimony of Yahushua, Jesus Christ.

So if these beings are coming through, you’ve got to measure what they say according to the scriptures, because the rule is “Prior revelation judges later revelation”.

Because in Malachi 3:6 Yahweh God says, “I am Yahweh, I change not”.

So Yahweh isn’t going to say something, you know, 5,000 years ago and then say something opposite in the 20th or 21st century.

So I what I tell anybody who is supposedly communicating with an ascended master whether it’s ‘Jesus’ or ‘Moses’ or whoever, is, “Does what they say agree with the Bible?”

Because if it doesn’t, flush it.

It’s that simple.

That’s the conclusion we came to.

Because the Bible is an objective source of truth upon which you can measure things.

Because otherwise you are adrift in total subjectivity.

You have no way of knowing, like if someone comes to you, and says, “Oh well, there’s really 4 gods – there’s Moe, Larry, Curly and Curly-Joe and they are the supreme deity of the universe”.

And then you go back to Deuteronomy 6:4 and it says, “Hear, O Israel: Yahweh Elohim is one”.

And so you know that the guy who says there are four gods is out to lunch.

It’s that simple.

S: Okay. Thank you. Did you ever find out who the being you channeled who said he was ‘Jesus’, did you ever find out who he really was?

B: I really … no, I didn’t.

I’m assuming he was some very cunning medium-level demon who was able to do a credible imitation of what an average person would think Jesus would be like.

S: Okay. From your own experience, did channelling ever help anyone in the long run?

B: (pause) … No. (laugh)

S: Okay.

B: I mean I’m trying to think.

I think one time I can think of, and this was in like 15 years of doing this –

Because you give all this vague, lofty metaphysical advice, but I think one time I had a guy and we did a reading for him and we warned him, “Be very careful because you are going to fall and slip on ice.”

And five days later he fell and slipped on ice and nearly broke his leg.

But of course it didn’t really help him

S: No

B: because he still fell.

But everyone was like, “Ooh, wow, that was like a prophetic prediction, ooohh”.

And they were just so excited about that.

That doubled the attendance at our little weekly séance meetings.

But no, it really … because most of the time, just like with us, if someone came to us with a concrete question, the answers that were given were so vague as to be basically, you know….

Because we were taught in our mediumship training that it was not our place as mediums to give people answers.

It was our place to give them insights that would elicit the answers from within themselves.

Which is of course a very safe way of avoiding getting sued later.

You know, because if you tell someone, “Oh yes, you should divorce your wife and run off with the lady who works in the bank with you”, you end up getting drawn into a very nasty divorce settlement.

But that was how we were trained.

S: Okay. Did channelling ever hurt anyone?

B: Well, I think it hurt us.

Because basically a lot of the – er hum – spiritual advice that came through me ending up leading us in some very dangerous directions.

Even to the point of, say, vampirism.

And I am sure the same thing is true of other people who sought advice from us.

Because a lot of times we would be encouraged and the people with us would be encouraged to partake in some very, very dangerous, very sinful activities.

Like for example when I was into vampirism several of the women in the coven were being given trance readings which said, “It would be very excellent for your spiritual evolution if you allowed Bill to bite you in the neck, and drink your very own blood.”

You know, that’s not very good advice.

This was in the dawning days of AIDS.

And while I don’t think I had AIDS or gave anybody AIDS it was just not a very good idea.

And yet we were doing it.

And we advised people sometimes … the spirit guides advised people to take dangerous hallucinogenic drugs.

They advised them to do other things that weren’t necessarily very smart.

And of course they often advised them to do very dangerous occult rituals.

S: Okay, well they were fairly clear.

That was one time then they were really clear instructions, I guess.

B: Yes, yes.

S: Oh, okay, thank you. So… but, they never gave clear instructions to do something good?

B: Oh yes, yes … I’m trying, I can’t think of an example …

I mean, you’ve got to realize, this was like 25 years ago.

S: Right.

B: But nothing comes to mind.

But I’m sure they did.

Yes, because again, see, both my wife and I – without wanting to sound disingenuous – we were pretty good hearted people.

We thought we were serving, you know, the true and living God.

We thought we were helping people.

And so we would never knowingly give someone bad advice, or would we allow … because we were always taught – because this lady who trained us, this Barb Selwar trained us – there’s one passage in First Corinthians, I think it’s First Corinthians 14, “The spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets.”

And so we were always taught that because we had this little place up in the top of our head where we could control the guides, that if they were saying something that we didn’t think was right, then we could stop them. So …

S: Good. So what comment would you give to people who channel or who go to channellers?

B: Well I would say it’s a very, very dangerous thing.

Because you don’t know who you are trafficking with.

You have no idea.

The Bible says clearly on numerous occasions, you are not supposed to speak to the dead, you are not supposed to go to mediums or soothsayers or whatever term you want to use.

Of course, the word ‘channeller’ is not in the Bible, because that’s a New Age term.

But it’s dangerous …

And if you are a medium or a channeller, you are basically inviting into your body entities that you have no idea really of what they are.

You don’t really know who these people are.

Just saying, “Do you stand in the light?” – that’s about as effective as a screen door on a submarine.

S: Okay, thank you. So what help did you find your spirit guides were for you in the long run?

B: I’m sorry? What?

S: Your spirit guides?

B: Yes. What help where they?

S: Yes. Were they any help at all?

B: About as much help as a screen door on a submarine. (laught)

S: Right.

B: No, I shouldn’t say that, I’m sure every now and then …

I mean, a broken clock is right twice a day.

Every now and then, they would probably give good advice.

But by and large as I look back, I think it was more or less about 75% nonsense, and 25% good advice.

S: It says in your book that your spirit guides encouraged you gently to get involved in the Church of Satan.

So, did they actually speak to you in those words?

B: Oh yes. Well, see, what happens is you hear words in your mind.

It’s not like there’s this audible voice …

Although there are mediums who have what they call spirit trumpets.

Where … this is kind of old fashioned stuff … I don’t think this is still going on much anymore …but, where the medium would actually have what looked like a megaphone, that would float around the séance room, and this disembodied voice would speak through this trumpet and say things.

That was called being a trumpet medium.

Those were very highly prized.

And sometimes there would be mediums who would literally sit there … this is creepy to see, I’ve seen this … where they would sit there like this ….

With their mouth open, nothing moving in the mouth, but a voice coming out.

S: Wow.

B: But you’re not seeing lips move or tongues move.

And this deep voice or whatever would come out and say something.

But in our case almost always … that only happens usually with these really high level guides that like give you seizures and stuff.

Usually I would hear a voice in my head.

And it would be very clearly ‘the voice’.

And it would resonate down to my voicebox and everything.

And it would come out with an accent.

Like the African witch doctor, he sounded like an African witch doctor.

And the monk from England sounded like a monk from England.

Actually he was from Edinburgh, so he had a faint Scottish accent.

Anyhow, yeah, and I would hear these voices and in that case … I forgot what you asked, that they told me to do?

S: Join the Church of Satan.

B: Yes, I was …

S: Because most people don’t think spirit guides would say that kind of thing.

B: Oh no, they would tell me …

Well, I would get the initial nudge, in this case like from the fellow who ran the occult bookstore in Milwaukee at that time, but we would then go to the guides and say, “Is this okay?”

And they’d say something like, “Well, you have to realize that Anton La Vey is an Ascended Master come back, you know, he’s a boddhisatwa or something.” You know.

And I mean, well, because the guides said he’s ….

Because again, you see, the funny thing to say is that the Church of Satan really isn’t that bad.

I mean, it’s bad.

But compared to hard core Satanism it’s …

We used to call it comic opera Satanism.

It’s not really, you know, serious Satanism.

They don’t even believe in the Devil in the Church of Satan.

So joining the Church of Satan was not as huge a metaphysical step as you might think.

S: I see. Okay. Well, a lot of people also like talking to angels and getting advice from them.

What do you think, if that’s a good idea?

B: Well, I really don’t see the point of talking to the middle man when you can talk to the boss.

S: And, are all angels good, is kind of where my question is leading?

B: Well, no, all angels aren’t good.

S: Right.

B: The problem is that there are fallen angels.

And we are warned in the Bible against cultivating a worshipping of angels or an over ….

I think a lot of this stuff is sort of unhealthy, that’s going on today.

Like Doreen Virtue or whatever her name is, and some of these other people who are telling you, “Oh, you’ve got to talk to your angels”.

And they have angel cards, and angel this and angel that.

And we are warned against that kind of thing.

Because angels don’t exist to glorify themselves – good angels.

Good angels will only direct your worship and your questions and everything else to the Almighty.

Only an evil angel will encourage that sort of devotion and worship or whatever.

Because worship only belongs to the Almighty, you know, Yahweh in heaven.

It doesn’t belong to some dippy little angel.

I mean, angels are not …

They are awesome beings, but compared to the Almighty they are navel lint.

So when we have the right as believers to have the Rock, the Holy Spirit, live within our hearts, and we can talk to Him, why mess around with some dumb angel?

It’s like, why go to middle level management when you can go to the top?

S: Thank you. What is a Freemason?


B: That was a radical change of subject.

A Freemason is a member of probably the world’s oldest organized secret society.

Ancient accepted Freemasons. Ancient free and accepted Freemasons.

They’ve been around basically in an organized way since the early 1700s.

And nowadays, there are I think about 2 ½ million (2,500,000) Masons in America.

They are kind of a dying breed, thankfully.

Right now the average age of a Mason in this country is 70.

And they are not getting a lot of new members.

And of course they are dying off as things happen.

So, it’s really dwindling in membership.

I don’t know which is going down faster, the membership of the Catholic priesthood or the membership of the Freemasons.

But anyway, Masonry, is …They say, “Freemasonry is a system of morality veiled in allegory”.

That’s their definition.

Which is typically vague and nebulous.

What it is, it’s basically a system of three degrees, that’s based on the old stone Masons’ guild.

Kind of like, even today we have trade guilds, like for carpenters, stone masons, plumbers, whatever.

Well, that was what the Freemasons were originally.

They were the medieval stone Masons guild that worked and built the cathedrals.

But nowadays almost no Freemasons are actually stone Masons.

I’ve only known one who was actually a real stone Mason.

Most of them are just businessmen or whatever, you know, and they are just in the lodge for whatever reason.

S: Okay. Why did you become a Freemason?

B: Well, because the Grand Master Druid of North America told me to.

Secondly, because my spirit guides told me to.

S: Okay, which spirit guide? The monk from … ?

B: Yes. I should elaborate slightly on that.

Especially on this Grand Master Druid.

He himself was a 33rd degree Mason.

And he said that a lot of really good occult information can be found within the Masonic lodge.

And that it was a place where a lot of occult adepts did gather, sometimes clandestinely, under the cover of being into other things.

But there would be high level occultists who were also Masons.

And if you look at a list of most of the prominent occultists of the 20th century you’ll find that almost all of them were Freemasons.

S: Okay. How did you get to meet that Druid?

B: Well, we were starting up as Witches, my wife and I.

I think at that time we weren’t married, we were just good friends.

And the same fellow who had this occult bookstore in Milwaukee, he arranged … he heard about this Grand Master Druid that he had finally … because this omen had appeared in the heavens … this prodigy of stars had congealed in the heavens in 1971.

He was told that the Age of Aquarius was then dawning.

And so supposedly – this was the story – supposedly it was time for him to come down out of the hills of Arkansas where he and his family had been practising Druidry in this country for a couple of hundred years as Scottish immigrants, to come down out of the hills and start teaching the science of Druidism to the masses.

So, he apparently, I suppose what he did, is he contacted various occult bookstore owners in large cities throughout the country and made arrangements to come and speak.

And this guy who was a friend of ours, he invited us up from … we were living at that time in Dubuque …

And he was extremely impressive.

And in his own way very powerful.

So that was how the relationship started.

And eventually he ended up somehow or other convincing us we needed to go down to Arkansas up in the mountains and study personally with him for three or four months and we did so.

And we became high priests in the Druids.

And it was during the course …he didn’t really tell everybody that he met, “Oh, you’ve got to be Freemasons” but he told the people who were in the high priesthood of his organization that that would be a good thing to do.

S: Okay. And how long were you a Mason for?

B: Nine years.

S: And how high up did you go?

B: Well, I went through the typical Blue Lodge degrees. Went through York rite all the way up to the ninth Templar Commandery.

Went through the Scottish rite all the way up to 32nd degree.


And at that time then I was considered worthy to get into what is called esoteric Freemasonry which most American Masons don’t even know exists.

And in that organization I was admitted into the Rite of Memphis Mitzraim and I went up to 90th degree

which a lot of Masons if they even hear that their false teeth will fall out of their heads.

But there are actually at least 97 degrees in the higher level esoteric rites.

S: From your experience?

B: From my experience.

S: I’ve actually heard that there are 360 degrees with Satan at the top.

Do you know if that is true or not?

B: I have no idea if that is true or not.

I have heard that too but from my information … I can only speak … that there is 90.

S: Right. Were you surprised when you found that there were more than 33 degrees?

B: No. Not really.

See, here … you’ve got … here’s how this works.

When I went through the Masonic rituals I had the spirit guides in my ear whispering things.

Telling me to do things.

Telling me to answer certain things in certain ways.

Because I did that, I was identified by the leadership of the Grand Lodge of the state of Wisconsin that I was someone a little bit extraordinary.

And the spirit guides kept prompting me with these things.

And I KNEW before I was even asked that there was a Rite of Memphis Mitzraim because the spirit guides told me so.

S: Wow.

B: And see that is one of the ways that I ultimately got contacted by the Illuminati.

Because the spirit guides had given me certain key things to say, key things to do, even gestures to make, stuff like that, that would identify me as being someone who was worthy of more light.

Because you see that’s what they promise in all of the Masonic degrees.

They say you get ‘light’.

You get further light.

You get more light.

And of course, where does this light come from?

Well, if you read the writings of the Masonic leaders, it comes from Lucifer.

S: And how many Masons know that?

B: Maybe one in a thousand. (1 in 1,000).

S: Wow.

B: The rest are just like cannon fodder.

They are there to be spiritually drained, spiritually vampirized, financially drained, because Masonry sucks a lot of money out of you.

But most of them don’t have a clue unless they bother to toddle upstairs and read the books that are in their own Masonic libraries like I did.

S: Right.

B: For example, Manly P. Hall who is one of the most honored masons of the 20th Century, he wrote a book … the name of which totally escapes me right now …but in this book … I’m sorry, I can’t really get the name …but he made this remark:

He said, “When the Master Mason arises to the point that he is a warrior on the block, the seething energies of Lucifer are his to command…”

“Lost Keys of Freemasonry”. Sorry, that’s the name of the book.

S: Very good.

B: Yes, I had a ‘senior moment’ there.

S: What does one have to do to become a Mason, for the first bunch of levels?

B: Well, it’s like the bumper sticker says, “To be one, ask one”.

Supposedly Masons are not allowed to recruit.

Although they are so desperate now, they are.

But you just had … like in my case, I didn’t know a Mason.


I had been given this advice by this guy.

We moved back to Milwaukee, and having been raised Catholic … in those days Catholics had nothing to do with Masons … I didn’t know what to do.

And it happened that this young man joined our coven and his dad was the junior warden of a Lodge.

And so I asked him, well, “Can you arrange for me to be applied for membership?”

They come and they interview you.

Basically they ask you some questions.

The key thing is they ask you if you believe in God.

Because you can’t be an atheist.

The criteria for being a Mason are; you cannot be an atheist, a madman, a fool, a young man under 18, an old man in his dotage or a woman.

So, those are the rules.

S: Okay. So what do they do for the first … are there any rituals that they do?

B: There are rituals upon rituals upon rituals.

I mean, you want to talk about High Church … everything has a ritual.

And the initiation rituals are basically you are blindfolded and it’s much too long to go into.

We have a whole video that gives away all the secrets ..

S: Right.

There’s a lot of them … It’s called “Light Behind Masonry.”

But basically you are taken through kind of what is an ancient mystery rite.

A ceremonial ordeal, in each degree.

Because you are lead around blindfolded, you are challenged, you are made to answer certain questions.

Then the key part of each degree, and this is true of all Masonic degrees, is you take an oath.

You kneel at the altar of a Holy Bible, and you take this bloodcurdling oath never to reveal the secrets.

And just to give you an example, in the Third Degree, the oath is that if you reveal the secrets of the Master Mason Degree, that your body will be severed in twain, your bowels taken from the body and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered to the four winds of Heaven, that no more remembrance will be had of you, of so vile a wretch as to have violated the Master Mason Degree.

And you swear that oath on the Bible, so help me God.

S: And are you told before you go in there what you are going to have to swear?

B: No.

S: And how did you feel when they told you that that was what you had to say?

B: Well, see I had already gone through a Witch initiation, which is about 80% similar to a Mason initiation.

S: Ohh.

B: I was already a 3rd degree Witch when I became a Mason.

And I had had a lot of this stuff done.

Like they challenge you with a sharp instrument on your naked breast.

They blindfold you.

They have a cable-tow around your neck.

And I had had to kneel at the Sacred Altar of Witchcraft and swear that oath.

Here’s the funny thing –

The Masonic Oaths are more horrible by a country mile than are the Witch oaths.

Isn’t that interesting?

S: Mmm.

B: But it was a little creepy.

Because the first time you do this you are blindfolded, you have no idea where you are at.

You are in a room full of a bunch of strange dudes.

For all you know they could be ready to cut your throat or throw you on the floor and sodomize you or who knows what?

And they are telling you all this stuff.

And then they give you this blood curdling oath.

And then they say, “My brother, in your current situation … you know, having taken this oath… what do you most desire?”

And the guy who is guarding you and leading you around because you are blindfolded he whispers in your ear, “Light”.

(Bill claps his hands”

And so you say, “Light”.

And then the Worshipful Master says, “My Brethren, assist me to reveal the light of Masonry to our new brother.”

And then he recites Genesis 1, verse 1, “And God said ‘Let there be light’ “.

And everybody claps.

(Bill claps once)

And they whip the blindfold off.

And he sees before him revealed by the light of three burning tapers, the Holy Bible, with a square and compass on it.

S: Okay.

B: What would happen if someone changed their mind?

And decided not to say ‘light’, said “I want to go home now”.

B: Well, I don’t really know.

I mean, I don’t think they’d kill you. They might just lead you out of the lodge room at that point, because you wouldn’t have really seen any of the secrets.

S: Right.

You would just know that they have some kind of creepy oath.

But I’ve never heard of that happening.

I would speculate, and that is all that it would be, that they would probably just lead you out of the room and give you your clothes back.

Because you are dressed in these weird blue pyjamas.

And send you home.

And hopefully give you your jewelry back.

S: Okay.

B: Because you are not allowed to have any jewelry on you when you go through a Masonic initiation.

S: Okay. A lot of people don’t realize that all Masonic temples have no windows. Is there any comment that you can make about that?

B: Well, they may have windows but they are either frosted over or covered with curtains.

Like the windows … our Lodge in Milwaukee had windows, but you can’t see in them.

Because again, it’s secret.

And they don’t want anybody peaking in the windows.

In fact the word “eavesdropper” which is common language in English is actually a Masonic term.

Because there was at one time a fellow who to learn the secrets of Masonry, hung from the eaves of the roof of the lodge building and tried to look in the window and he fell and hurt himself.

And that’s where the term “eavesdropper” originated.

S: Wow.

B: You would be amazed at how many Masonic terms are actually in our vocabulary without us knowing it.

S: Thank you.

You said that “To advance into serious Satanism beyond the Church of Satan level, it would be necessary to complete two apparently paradoxical tasks.

The first was to join the order of Freemasons and become a Master Mason.

And the other was to receive Holy Orders and become a Catholic Priest.”

So, how many Master Masons know that there are Satanists among them?

B: I’d say, the figure I quoted earlier, one in a thousand. (1 in 1,000).

S: Right.

B: I knew, just in Milwaukee, at least 5 or 6 Masons who were involved in either Witchcraft or Satanism.

And one of them, was in deeply … he was a Worshipful Master.

And he never … see this is one thing people ask me, they say “The higher degrees, is that where you get this stuff?”


This guy had never gotten past Master Mason.

But he had worked his way through the chairs as they say, and become even a Worshipful Master, which is like the head of the lodge.

And was a very serious scholar of Manly P. Hall.

Who, again, when he died I think in 1940 was eulogized as the greatest Masonic philosopher of the Twentieth Century.

And this guy HATED God.

He hated religion with a passion.

And I remember one point … one year I went to the Grand Lodge meeting, cause I was a lodge office, and on the floor was a debate as to whether or not we should remove the oaths because they were offensive to some Christians.

And this guy got up and just railed on the Christian church.

And just went on and on …”We shouldn’t let these bleepity-bleep Christians tell us how to run … This is older than Christianity …This is blah, blah …”

I mean, he was just going on

This guy was a very high level esotericist.

And yet he also had an obvious hatred for Christianity.

So … I don’t know.

S: Thank you. Since Catholics are strictly forbidden to be Masons, why were you being asked to do two opposite things?

B: Well, first of all, this whole thing about …

You know, in Illuminism there is this idea of creating a false dichotomy.

What people don’t realize is that the Catholic Church helped start the Masons.

And that for example the Scottish Rite, most of the degrees in the Scottish Rite were written by Jesuits.

So even though there is this apparent antipathy between the Masons and the Catholics to the point that up until John Paul the 2nd’s reign, if you became a Mason and you were Roman Catholic you were de facto excommunicated just like that.

But actually it’s all a sham.

Because most of the high level people in the Vatican are all Freemasons.

And many of the people who are Freemasons are Catholics.

S: Why do they have the sham? What do they get out of that?

B: Well originally, you see, it’s like the old Hegelian idea which he actually got from the Illuminati of thesis – antithesis – synthesis.

You have two opposing things and they fight and they come together and they create a … and in this case, the idea would be to create a One World Religion, out of these two opposites.

The two things come together and they merge.

And that’s actually happening right now right before our very eyes.

Because for example, I don’t know this, but I have serious reason to believe that the new Pope is in fact a Freemason.

The old Pope who just died was a Freemason.

The Pope before him was a Freemason.

The Pope before him was not only a Freemason but a Rosicrucian.

S: How do you know that?

B: Well, Angelo Roncalli who was John the 23rd, he was a member of a very high level Rosicrucian Masonic order.

There are records to that effect.

And that’s been documented in a book called, “The Broken Cross”.

I forget the author but you can look it up on the internet I’m sure.

Paul the 6th created, pardon me, he enlarged the College of Cardinals.

And just by coincidence almost all of the Cardinals … he took Archbishops and made them Cardinals … that’s what a Pope does … almost every one of those Cardinals, those new Cardinals, were Freemasons.

Now by inference we can assume that he was probably a Freemason.

But that’s only circumstantial.

When John Paul the 2nd was shot he gave the Grand Masonic Healing Sign of Distress.

S: Oh. Okay.

B: Which is what Masons do when they are in dire straits.

Also, John Paul the 2nd is the Pope who issued the Bull, which is what like a Papal Bull, that basically removed the ban on Freemasonry.

S: Oh. Okay.

Which is almost somewhat telling.

So, to answer your question, the antipathy there is more imaginary than real.

S: Thank you. What are some vows that Masons take that might later protect a murderer or a person who has committed treason, in court?

B: Well, in the Blue Lodge you swear an oath that you will keep the secrets of a brother Master Mason inviolate, “murder and treason excepted.”

Meaning you can turn them in if they are a murderer or a traitor.

However, if you go up the York Rite, which is supposedly the Christian – ha ha ha – branch of Freemasonry and you get to the Royal Arch degree, there you swear an oath which says, “I will keep the secrets of a Royal Arch Companion, murder and treason not excepted.”

So if you know that your brother Royal Arch Mason is a murderer or a traitor, you have to keep that secret.

And both of those degrees also have a similar clause which says that if I know that a brother Master Mason is in danger, I am under obligation to warn him of approaching danger.

So if you are a police officer, if you are a judge, if you are an officer of the court, and you find out that a warrant is going to be served on a brother Mason, you are under a blood oath obligation to go and warn that guy so he can skip town.

S: That is just so terrible.

It’s scary for our country.

B: Especially when you think of how many judges are Freemasons.

Because it used to be virtually all lawyers were Masons.

Now there are more and more, of course, women lawyers, so that number is diminishing.

But you can still assume a sizeable majority of people on the bench or that are attorneys are probably Freemasons.

S: Thank you.

What is the big secret of Masonry?

B: Well, in an exoteric sense, the big secret of Masonry is that there is no secret.

It’s basically a bunch of handshakes.

And those handshakes exist to guard the Master’s word. Okay?

And the Master’s word, you discover in the Third Degree, was lost.

Oops. There’s no Master’s word.

And so therefore, and this is too lengthy to explain, but in the ritual drama that goes as part of Third Degree, we learn that Hiram Abif who was one of three Grand Masters was murdered, and he took to his grave with him, one third of the Master’s word.

And so the Master’s word is forever lost.

And so when they raised Hiram from the grave by the strong grip of the lion’s paw, and brought him back to life – supposedly – the first words that were spoken as this happened were to be the new Master’s word.

Are you ready for that new word is?

S: Yes

B: Mah-Hah-Bone.

Now, Mah-Hah-Bone in Hebrew means, “What? The builder?”

Because he was an architect.

Now isn’t that just a totally earth shattering secret? – “What? The builder?”

But of course most Masons don’t even know what those words mean.

But those words are so sacred you can only communicate them to a brother Master Mason under five points of fellowship in the era of the other Mason in a low breath, so that no one else might hear them.

S: That is very strange.

B: However, what you have got to realize is that all of this is flummery

in that, the esoteric secret is that the Master’s Word is in fact the lost member of Osiris.

And as some of your listeners may know, in the ancient mystery religions Osiris was a god in Egypt, who was the god of fertility.

And his evil brother Set killed him and cut up his body into dozens of pieces and hid them all over Egypt.

And Isis, the goddess who was both Osiris’ mother and his wife, looked all over to find the pieces.

Just like they searched all over in the Master Mason degree to find the lost body of Hiram.

And she found all the pieces except one, and that’s the male member.

And so she put him back together but because he was missing his most …(laugh)… his body bit, she couldn’t bring him back to life so she had to plunk him down in the Underworld and he became the god of the Underworld.

Now, the metaphor is that the lost word is actually sexual potency of the Mason.

So it all boils down to sex.

Yet most Masons don’t even know this.

They don’t even understand, for example, the monument that was supposedly erected at the tomb of Hiram Abif was a broken column, with a beautiful maiden weeping over it and behind her is Father Time, plaiting her hair.

Now think of that.

What is the broken column?

It’s a phallic symbol.

The weeping maiden is Isis and Father Time is Kronos. Kronos was a Titan and that is the Greek name of Saturn – who is Saturn in Egyptian mythology?

He’s Set.

The god that murdered Osiris.

It’s all right there.

That’s why, when a Master Mason is in dire, dire trouble, like the Pope was, he will cry out, “Oh Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow’s son?”

Because Hiram Abif was the widow’s son.

Well, Isis is the widow.

See, it all goes back to ancient Egyptian mythology.

S: Wow.

B: So the actual secret is that Masonry is a sex cult.

S: Wow

B: And that’s why they wear their apron over their ‘holy of holies’.

Freemasonry_Bush_Masonic Texas Public School

President Bush with Texas Freemasons 


Just like there is a veil in the Temple of Solomon that covers the holy place where the Ark of the Covenant is.

Well, this is the ‘holy of holies’ of the Mason.

That’s why Masonic monuments are obelisks.

Like Washington’s monument, the largest obelisk in the world.


 Washington Monument


He was a Freemason.

It’s a giant phallic symbol.

S: It’s all there for everyone to see.

B: That is what the Masons mean by ‘resurrection’.

S: Wow.

B: If you go to a Masonic funeral they talk about the “sure and certain hope of the resurrection”.

When they say that word, they don’t mean what all the nice Christian people sitting in their chairs think they mean.

They are talking about the fact that the phallus dies and then rises again.

S: Wow. Thank you. What are some of the problems with Freemasonry?

B: (laugh) Well, I think some of them would be rather obvious but …

S: Right.

B: Well, basically it’s its own religion.

It is a religion which does not honor Yahushua, Jesus Christ.

And it is a religion that demands people that they do things that are contrary to the commandments of God.

And let me explain that.

The oaths that I have already mentioned that you have to taken even as an Entered Apprentice – the lowest degree – are bloodcurdling.

You swear that you will have your throat cut from ear to ear and your tongue torn out by the roots to be buried in the sands of the sea.

Obviously that is going to involve a certain amount of death, you know.

And the problem is that first of all you are swearing that oath on a Bible in the name of God.

Now here is the deal.

Yahushua said in Matthew Chapter 5, 34-37, that we are not supposed to swear oaths.

And that is also repeated by James in Chapter 5, verse 12.

It says, “Above all things, swear no oaths.”

So just right there, if you are a Christian and you are a Mason, you have just broken one of the commandments of your Lord and Savior.


Additionally…Oh, the Mason might say, “Oh, these oaths don’t mean anything.”

Well then you are taking the name of the Lord in vain.

Because you are swearing a false oath.

Additionally you are swearing an oath where you are swearing that you will have your body, which is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, if you are a Christian, be mutilated and killed in some horrible way.

So you are actually breaking three of the ten commandments right then and there.

S: Plus you can’t go home to your wife and tell her about it.

B: No. It’s all secret from your wife.

You can’t tell your wife. You can’t tell your family.

Plus, the other thing – you see, I have an excuse.

I was a Pagan when I went into the Masons.

Most Masons aren’t.

Most Masons are some kind of, you know, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, whatever.

And when you begin your Masonic journey, you are made to take off all your metal, including your wedding ring.

Which a lot of people would have a problem with that.

Additionally they are made to put on these pyjamas, blue pyjamas and a blindfold, which leaves their one breast bare.

A cable-tow put around their neck, which is like a blue cord.

And they are lead to the door of the Lodge, made to knock on the door of the Lodge.

Some guy answers from inside the Lodge, “Who comes here?”

And the fellow who is your conductor answers for you and says,

“Mr Bill Schnoebelen, who has long been in darkness and now seeks to be brought to light, to receive a part of the rights and benefits of this Worshipful Lodge, erected to God and dedicated to the Holy Saint John, as all brothers and fellows have done before him.”

Now what’s contained in that?

If you are a Christian, you are saying you have “long been in darkness, and now seek to be brought to light.”

S: Ohh.

B: And you have Yahushua ha Mashiach, Jesus Christ, the Light of the World, in your heart, and yet you are ‘in darkness’?

You have just denied your Lord and Savior.

Now if I was a Pastor or a Deacon or even a Christian lay person that knew more than word one of the Bible, I would at that point say, “I’m done. Give me my clothes back. Give me my jewellery back. I’m out of here.”

But, 40,000 Southern Baptist Pastors are Freemasons.

S: Wow.

B: And I don’t mean to pick on that denomination.

There are other examples.

Almost any denomination is rife with Freemasons.

S: It’s also hard to believe that so many important, powerful people have been through such strange things.

B: Yes. Many, I think it’s 17 US Presidents have been Freemasons.

Many of our Founding Fathers were Freemasons.

And they go through this partly because it’s sort of expected.

It’s very hard to rise to political power in this country unless you are a Mason or something worse, like our current president, who is a member of Skull and Bones, which is an even worse fraternity.

Of course, it’s related just to Yale, and it’s a much more elite fraternity, but it’s never-the-less very spooky.

As you might know by the name.

S: Right. Am I right in saying that you believe that cases of sexual abuse, particularly with children are much more likely to happen if there is a Mason in the family?

B: Yes. Not only just with children.

Even with female adult women being raped and so on.

But yes, in our experience with counseling … oh, probably 2,000 clients now over the years …

S: Wow, that’s a lot.

B: that we have seen literally hundreds of cases where children allege that they have been sexually molested either within Masonic Lodges or else by Masonic grandfathers, Masonic parents, whatever.

And I believe there is a real, significant spiritual reason for that.

Because Masonry worships Baal … see Baal and all of those Pagan gods that surrounded Israel in the Old Testament, they were all phallic fertility gods.

And if you worship, knowingly or unknowingly, sex, then sex is going to come back and start corroding your soul.

And you are going to start having improper sexual thoughts come into you from demon spirits.

Because when you kneel at that altar you basically place yourself under the Headship of the false god Baal.

Even if you are a Christian.

And so you have one knee on the alter of Yahweh God and one knee on the altar of Baal.

And that doesn’t work.

You are going to end up destroying your family, spiritually if not every other way.

S: I see. Yes.

Part 1

Part 2: Channelling, Freemasonry

Part 3: Freemasonry, Catholicism, Mormonism

Part 4: Catholic Church, Luciferianism, Satanism

Part 5: Satanism, Saturn, Cathedral of Pain

Part 6: Black magic, White Magic, Satanism, Mormonism

Part 7: Mormonism, Reptilians, Satanism, Voodoo, Zombies

Part 8: Black magic, Walt Disney, Vampirism

Part 9: Vampires, Werewolves, Illuminati






Copyright ©: Stephanie Relfe 2014 – 3000

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